Youth action for climate justice
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[00:00:00] Hello, welcome everybody to the next episode of Under 30 podcast of the EU - Council of Europe Youth Partnership. Today we are going to talk about climate justice, young people and action of young people, related to this topic.

Dariusz: We have two guests. could you please introduce yourself?

Eimear: My name is Eimear Manning. I am the Youth and Climate Justice Development Officer from the National Youth Council of Ireland, and I also sat on a drafting group as part of the European Youth Forum for the Council of Europe's recommendation on young people and climate action, which was just adopted by the Council of Ministers this October.

Dariusz: Thank you, Eimear. And Agnes.

Agnes: Hello, everyone. And thank you so much for the invitation. I'm Agnes Gkoutziamani. I'm the Advocacy Manager at Youth and Environment Europe. But also, [00:01:00] I'm a member of the Advisory Council on Youth, elected by the European Youth Forum. And, I'm the lead on the environmental portfolio.

Agnes: So therefore I was involved in the last meetings, before the adoption of the recommendation on young people and climate action.

Dariusz: Thank you. Nice to have you here. I hope you are going to have a nice discussion, Lana.

Lana: Thank you. and, both, Eimear and Agnes, were also involved, in, the Symposium on Young People, Democracy, and Climate Action that we at the Youth Partnership organized, this September 2024 in Strasbourg.

Lana: And both of you mentioned the words climate justice. So maybe we can start with that first to help our listeners understand what do we mean by climate justice and why is this a term that has been used so often by young people in the recent years? So maybe Eimear if you would like to start with [00:02:00] that.

Eimear: Sure, thanks. So, climate justice frames the climate and biodiversity crisis with more of a human rights lens. So it's kind of a mixture of looking after both people and planet at the same time. So, it's a relatively new movement, in comparison to the broader climate action movement. but ultimately what it looks to do is ensure that those people who are most vulnerable and typically actually contribute the least to the climate crisis, are then cared for and are, you know, that their livelihoods are respected in any climate solutions that we then bring in. So that's kind of a larger frame of climate justice.

Lana: Thank you, Ymir. And Agnes, does the Youth Environment Europe or Advisory Council have the same understanding or would you like to add anything?

Agnes: Yes, actually, on top of what Eimear has already mentioned, from Youth and Environment Europe perspective, [00:03:00] what we see is that youth sometimes is perceived as a very homogenous group, which is not the case.

Agnes: So that's where the entire movement of climate justice came from,the youth perspective. So YEE he actually has launched a project on global dialogues on climate justice. That is trying to bring together youth from global north and global south countries, in order to address what are the challenges they are experiencing and what are the different measures they need to ask.

Agnes: Because there's what we try to show by being involved in climate justice is that there's no one measure that fits in every situation. So this is something very important to highlight here.

Lana: Thank you both. And what would be some of the main concerns that young people or your organizations raise, regarding the climate crisis and of course the question of climate justice and how the crisis impacts on the lives of young [00:04:00] people?

Agnes: So in terms of what young people are mainly concerned, I would say that in one thing that we all agree is that climate crisis and climate change is happening now. It's not in the future. It's not something that we need to discuss what we need to do in the future to tackle it. So the house is burning and we're still trying to figure out who to call.

Agnes: So climate inaction from the states is something that is the most concerning topic among young people. They are suffering from a lot of eco anxiety, because, states are playing ping pong actually on taking a decision on how they are planning to solve this issue. So this is something I would say that is the most concerning among young people because we do not see the commitment that is required, based on the urgency of the situation.

Eimear: I would say as well, we're also seeing a strenuous [00:05:00] relationship between what governments need to do for an economy of a country versus what they need to do for the environment of that country and the world as a whole. So we have a lot of young people at the moment that are really trying to push for the fossil fuel non proliferation treaty, but very few governments actually willing to sign such a treaty.

Eimear: Eco anxiety was mentioned by Agnes there, we're also seeing a rise in, this concept, a very new concept, called solastalgia, so nostalgia, a lot of people understand that term as like a yearning to go back to a place that they have fond memories of in the past, but solastalgia is a yearning for a future that you know that you should have, but that you can't have because of the climate crisis.

Eimear: And we've never really experienced that sensation as humans before because we've never had a generation of people have to come up through so much adversity with regards to their environment. so we're seeing that a lot as well. And then I think finally the last thing [00:06:00] that's, really, Kind of we're seeing a passion in, in young people is trying to find their place in activism with regards to this subject.

Eimear: So we're seeing these huge emergences now of artivism and trying to use art to, to kind of spread your message around the climate or trying to use music, trying to use social media. So there's a lot of young people who are struggling with that and trying to find out where their activism actually fits.

Eimear: But that's maybe a conversation for another day..

Dariusz: Yes.You mentioned it a little bit, and what I observe as well, looking at different actions organized by young people across Europe related to climate, and climate justice, it's very connected with a lot of emotions.

Dariusz: And these emotions are coming both from the movement of young people or from the activists and also a lot of emotions coming from the public or general public, I would say, you know, this emotion sometimes are also, yeah, they are spread through the media. And also when you listen to the journalists, they also put [00:07:00] these messages as very emotional messages.

Dariusz: Sometimes, of course, I understand that people who kind of, align with the idea of climate justice, they understand it. People who are against, because there are still a lot of people in the general public who are against or who do not have enough knowledge. They also carry this negative emotions. Can you talk a little bit about this, about these emotions in, in the climate justice action and movement, on one hand, yeah, what are they?

Dariusz: And on the other hand, how to deal with them? Because I can imagine that you have to deal with it yourself as a climate justice activist, and you have to somehow manage these public emotions, which is much more complicated.

Agnes: Well, from our side, what we have seen is that first, a lot of emotions that climate activists share is anger, is also disappointment because for example, attending COP can create a lot of disappointing emotions and negative emotions because it's very exhausting [00:08:00] to arrive there to use your own funds as a youth led organization and then spend two weeks in not the optimal conditions also being scared that you might be even arrested or that you will not be able to defend your rights.

Agnes: And then after trying to do some change, then the outcome, usually it's very disappointing. So, yes, I would say that anger and disappointment are some of the negative emotions, but also anxiety that you have to deal with a problem every day. Our job is not something cheerful ,is something that we are stressing about and that's why, why we're working on it.

Agnes: But at the same time, it's very inspiring to work with young climate activists. It makes us feel that we're not alone in this battle when we see the movement growing. But at the same time, it takes a lot of patience and courage to try to show to the public that there's no elephant in the room that you're not the elephant in [00:09:00] the room.

Agnes: It's a very hard to try to convince, especially general public when they're concerned about climate activism, because usually it's portrayed with a very negative framework, especially from the media. So trying to change that narrative by ourselves, it's very difficult and it's very difficult to say, okay, climate change and climate crisis is happening.

Agnes: It's affecting our future. Our future is not sure of how it's going to look like. We see that every time with all the floods and the forest fires that we're experiencing. So, it takes a lot of patience and actually, dealing with rejection from a lot of stakeholders and the public is a very important problem that we are facing.

Agnes: But as I said, the good thing with climate activists is that they're not giving up the cause. So that's the important side from why yes, I have seen.

Eimear: Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of weight being put on eco anxiety at the moment [00:10:00] but there's actually a lot more research being done into the complex emotions that surround the climate crisis and anger certainly is one, but one of the ones that I find really fascinating is ecological sorrow and grief and loss. So we don't typically think about like climate change as necessarily a grief or a type of loss, but for a lot of young people it is. So it's that kind of the, the chronic sorrow that can come with seeing environments around you or seeing a change to the natural landscape in your local community, or broader, broader world, but then there's also this concept around what's called anticipatory grief.

Eimear: So it's that we know that something hasn't happened yet, but that if we don't change our ways or our practices now, that likely it will happen in the future. So we're seeing lots more young people who, if they don't have a government or a political system that actually respects their voice and listens to them, they suffer a lot from that anticipatory [00:11:00] grief or anticipatory loss.

Lana: Thank you both. and it's very interesting because often, uh, when we speak of anger, it is often said that, beneath the anger or beyond the anger it's actually sadness and this is what makes us angry because you're sad about something But we know also from climate emotions real and the other work on climate emotions But there is also still a little bit of hope and we also know that what creates the hope is sometimes the common action when we work together on something.

Lana: And Agnes mentioned also this urgency of now and the urgency of acting now. So, if you can tell us a little bit about what type of actions are young people taking now, and also what type of actions they would like to see from others. So not only from the youth sector, [00:12:00] from government, policymakers, business leaders, et cetera, what type of actions would also help us to inspire this hope?

Eimear: So, there's two questions there. The first one we mentioned a little bit about young people trying to find their space in activism. But one of the more interesting things that we're seeing is this more radical activism that's happening now. And, unfortunately, but also I suppose it is to be anticipated that a lot of that radical activism is being put down and looked down upon by many in government, many in the media.

Eimear: But ultimately. It's, it's to be looked at as a cry for help and a cry of desperation to say, well, we've tried all the nice ways of raising awareness on this, and they're not working. So what do you expect us to do? So young people are coming out with, with more and more of these kind of attention grabbing and eye catching ways of protest.

Eimear: And actually, one of the real reasons why we [00:13:00] started creating that Recommendation that I mentioned in the introduction on young people and climate action was we were seeing a very disproportionate response from many governments to those actions of young people. And I think the biggest one for us that highlighted really that that a lot of governments are starting to crack down on peaceful types of activism with regards to this was, in Germany, in Berlin, they had brought in a, a mechanism where if law enforcement found out that young people were planning a climate protest, they could arrest and detain the leaders who were creating that protest or trying to organize it, for up to 30 days.

Eimear: And normally what they would do is arrest them and detain them a few days before the protest and then hold them for a few days after the protest and then release them so the protest couldn't go ahead. That absolutely infringes on the right of assembly for young people, and that free [00:14:00] speech as well.

Eimear: So, that kind of made us want to look more into those activism processes that are being disregarded by government as, I suppose, more of a nuisance than an actual ask and a voice that young people need to have and feel like they, their future will be compromised if those asks aren't met. And in regards to then what young people want from government.

Eimear: Mostly what young people want is for the government to commit to the actions that they've already said that they would commit to. And like the European Union requires every country within the EU to create basically a list of goals that they're going to do to reduce their carbon emissions.

Eimear: And most European countries just aren't even meeting. those basic commitments that they have agreed to. But then the second thing is, is that to more engage with young people in terms of that [00:15:00] emotional standpoint. Young people are becoming very disillusioned with the political process because their voices aren't really being respected.

Eimear: It's not being considered as a very high level stakes important issue right now over things like economy and potential poverty and health, and those things are incredibly important, but young people are arguing that all of those things won't matter in a world where the climate and nature and biodiversity around us is falling apart.

Eimear: So it's just trying to put more of a perspective shift on making climate action. a higher level of priority than it currently is for most governments.

Agnes: From my perspective based on what young people are doing, apart fromwhat Eimear has mentioned is that young people are being engaged in a lot of youth led environmental organizations, they put forward capacity building sessions in order to bring more young [00:16:00] people into the movement in order to increase capacity and expertise, which is very much needed.

Agnes: We are trying to raise awareness on the different topics because of course, information is the first think that needs to be done on specific topics in order to have actions thatcannot be counter argued, somehow, but also apart from that, what we are trying to do is to be part of policymaking and decision making and one example iswhat we are doing in the Advisory Council on Youth.

Agnes: We have been part of this long process of negotiations for the recommendation on young people and climate action, together with the states' representatives and the Joint Council youth meetings. This is the ultimate form of youth participation in decision making because we have the same actually voting rights and voting power when it comes to negotiations. But what I have to say here is [00:17:00] that this is one example, but it's not replicated in national member states. It's not replicated in EU, but it's only in the Council of Europe level. And we need that. So going to the second question, what we need that is also mentioned in the recommendation on young people in climate action, which needs to be implemented and integrated into national policies is that youth needs to be on the same level, on the same table on decision and policymaking and have co decision mechanisms, which is the Council of Europe has already implemented that for the past decades. So it's very important for this to be replicated. But also what I wanted to say in terms of actions is that what we see from our work at Youth and Environment Europe is that the right to healthy environment is a very big debate, and we need to strengthen legal frameworks in order for young people to feel ensured that [00:18:00] we are protected.

Agnes: We have the law on our side and the law is updated based on what is happening now, not what has happened 50 years ago and based on the reality that we're facing now. So the right to healthy environment is actually recognized legally in a lot of national constitutions. Also member states have agreed in a UN resolution on it, but when it comes to the Council of Europe, they're denying it.

Agnes: They're not accepting a legal recognition of the right to healthy environment. And that's what we want to see, because we want to see that they commit, that we have a legal instrument that we can count on and that the European Court of Human Rights can actually use this for legal climate cases because it's very important for us to have legal certainty on what are our rights based on the urgency of the situation.

Eimear: Just one thing to add that, that Agnes said that I just want to say is it's a really an [00:19:00] example of good practice, great practice even, is that Wales has a Commissioner for Future Generations. So they actually have a governmental commissioner whose sole job is to work with other departments and other policy makers across those departments to ensure that, that young people's rights are protected, both that are alive today but also that are yet to be born. So it's, it's trying to make the entire Government of Wales think about that long term impact that their policy decisions might have and it's a very small step to a very, very big help to young people both now and in the future.

Dariusz: I can see that there is a lot of action of young people going on, on different levels, not only on, on activist level, but also on political level and policy. it looks that there is something going on and the voice is at least loud.

Dariusz: I'm not sure if it's heard, but it's loud. And so some people hear it maybe for the first time. But, but there is also a sad reality,because, the issue of climate justice, [00:20:00] as you said, it's, it's not the, the issue in itself, it connects with a lot of things, with economy, with politics, with millions of things.

Dariusz: And I've been reading yesterday, actually, the survey that was done in Poland. I come from Poland, where there is a lot of discussion now going on a political level to ban climate action by young people of Last Generation, especially because they are disturbing the public.

Dariusz: But this, this is one thing, but the other thing that's maybe more kind of worrying is that a lot of younger people, the people who are in the age of like 17, 18, so people who will probably start voting soon, or they are just voting, they are turning into support of very radical right movements or political parties, which are clearly denying everything that's related with climate action.

Dariusz: Clearly. And they say, this is going to be one of the things we are going to fight for. We are going to forget about all these things. I don't know if we have the answer why is this [00:21:00] happening, but what can be done in order probably to raise awareness about the issue of climate justice, with these young people who are turning into this support of right wing movement.

Eimear: I think there are two things that need to be looked at here. So the first is, is that what I mentioned that young people are getting really, really disillusioned with politics and the current way that government is being run. So those far right narratives are kind of providing a different outlet for those young people to start seeing a government that might not be status quo, the way things have been done, it gives them a sense that there might be some better future hope in a different political system.

Eimear: Now, also, we have to remember that the young people who are growing up today might not necessarily be as in tune with what far right really means from that historical context as well. So what they can see is a different status [00:22:00] quo, but also you were mentioning that the far right, the kind of, parties, I suppose, that we're seeing emerging now are very much against climate.

Eimear: I would actually argue that slightly because we're seeing this trend of an increase in what we're calling the far right environmentalist. Which is a very unusual trend, but it actually does have roots in history back to World War II, but they're, they're pushing this now to try and recruit as many people as possible who also have that environmental ideology of environmental protection.

Eimear: And I don't agree with this at all, I'm just saying to, to explain what a far right environmentalist is. But what they believe is that if you have people from other countries moving into your home country, they are not going to have the same respect for the land of your home country as they would have had in their own home country.

Eimear: And therefore, the far right [00:23:00] environmentalist, they want to adopt this concept of eco bordering, which is where you close all borders to migrants, refugees, asylum seekers, in order to protect the environment. I'm doing this with air quotes and people can't see it, but in order to protect the environment of your home country, and it, it is a very racially charged way of looking at the climate crisis.

Eimear: And it is absolutely not a solution for the climate crisis. It goes against everything to do with the climate justice approach. But if young people are seeing that a particular far right party does have climate on their agenda, then they might still feel like that their, their worries and their concerns around that climate is going to fit in with that party.

Eimear: So the far right are being very clever at trying to ensure that they have as broad an approach as possible to try and recruit as many as possible. And unfortunately, not only young people, we are seeing adults fall into this, [00:24:00] this far right ideology as well because of that. But yes, unfortunately, they are getting smarter as to how they actually target. young people to join them.

Agnes: Based on what Eimear has said and on the initial questions, I have to say to pinpoint two things. First is the concept of environmental defenders, which is something that we are trying a lot to bring in the discussion and to highlight. The protection of young environmental defenders is very much highlighted in the recommendation.

Agnes: So this is what we're asking actually states to take into consideration when it comes to protecting young environmental defenders and, protecting their rights in order to avoid exact the situation that you mentioned before. Apart from that, one important thing is that we are involved also in the drafting of the strategy on environment within the Council of Europe.

Agnes: There, what we're trying to do on behalf the [00:25:00] Advisory Council on Youth, but also Youth and Environment Europe is to mention young environmental defenders being protected and this be reflected in the strategy, but what we're also trying to do is that with the wording that we will not exclude environmental defenders that are not young.

Agnes: Because it's very easy to fall into this trap with the wording. So we don't want something like that. And when it comes to far right support from young people, this is a very unfortunate event that we're seeing I think across Europe, and it's a very concerning that we're witnessing a democratic backsliding in general.

Agnes: And that's where states need to gain again, the trust and all the parties that need to gain the trust of young people that They need to trust them and that they will have, they will do actually what they have committed and what they are promising. Because what we see in my opinion, young people going to far right is that because [00:26:00] they have lost trust on the states, they have lost trust because nothing is changing.

Agnes: And the situation is getting worse and worse environmentally,financially, we are going through a crisis. Also there's so much uncertainty.with how the future is going to look like. So these far right movements are offering this kind of certainty, which is very much for me, it's as Eimear said, it's kind of, it's a way of manipulating young people to get them into their side, providing them this kind of certainty that the young people lost from the states, which is very much concerning. And we need actually to raise awareness and to try to get young people with us, because we need to tell them that this is not the future they want. And they do not get the other side of the coin of what this far right can bring.

Lana: Thank you both. So, maybe taking into [00:27:00] consideration everything that we have discussed in terms of the human rights connection and climate.

Lana: I would like to ask both of you to kind of think of a message you would like to send to young people, youth activists, policymakers, anybody else on what could we be doing better, because there's so much more clearly all of us can do. And, what would you like to see on the topic of climate?

Eimear: So, there's a f a lot of things here that I would love to talk about, but I if I had to narrow it down to maybe two, the first would be, a lot of people say to young people, go and vote. And ensure that your democratic voice is heard. I want to take that one step further. And to a certain extent, this is not the young person's responsibility.

Eimear: But to a certain extent it is. Which is, [00:28:00] go and research your vote before you vote. Now that does depend a lot on how that research is provided to you. Maybe it's not accessible, maybe parties are trying to be secretive about their policy. So that can be really, really hard depending on what country that you're in.

Eimear: But what I would say is, try and take some time to really inform yourself about which parties best suit your morals and ideals, but then also take the time to engage with those parties and say, I am a climate voter. I want to vote for you, but your climate policies just aren't strong enough. Is there any chance that we could discuss these and try to be a little bit more politically active in that space.

Eimear: Because only if many political parties or leaders start to hear climate, climate, climate, climate. Coming up again and again and again, will it be something that finally gets on the agenda. So that would be number one. That's my, my tip, I suppose, to, to young people. [00:29:00] Then, my tip to government and to policy makers is to start adapting your mandates based on what you are hearing.

Eimear: If you're hearing a lot of young people in your local area crying for better, stronger policy connections, you are their representative. So you are their mouthpiece, you are their voice in those policy spheres, and if you are not taking their voice seriously and elevating it to those political platforms, then you are doing your constituents a disservice.

Eimear: So by trying to be that mouthpiece for everybody in your community, you are finally going to then gain the trust of that community, number one. We are going to start kind of returning back where we don't need this far right approach to shake up the status quo. What we need is governments that A properly communicate with their local constituents and then B, actually take the time to do the [00:30:00] action piece on fighting for what their constituents want the most. And if we have that trust in government, then we will have a strong diplomatic and democratic process. So they are my two main recommendations.

Agnes: From my perspective, a tip for young climate activists is that do not lose hope. Your voice does matter. Your voice does make a change. We see that it takes time. We need to be patient. And, sometimes we might feel that there's no light in the end of the tunnel, but there is, and the stronger we are and the stronger we make our voices heard, the more results we will see.

Agnes: So this is very important to keep the movement alive and to keep it stronger. So this is something that I really want to highlight. although I know that, sometimes we might feel frustrated. and also from the side of, policy and decision makers and states, [00:31:00] what I want to say is that it's needed actually to hear the youth perspective because they are the future voters.

Agnes: They are also the people that are going to be affected from all the policies. So it's very much needed to reflect these needs and to your policies, because that's what this mandate is for. And it's very important for us to see this reflected on the policies, to see that reflected on the actions and actually to try to clean up the mess.

Agnes: Because that's what we are facing.

Thank you, Eimear and Agnes for this inspiring talk. You'll find the link to the materials from the symposium in the notes to this episode. Also with other links to the useful materials that you can use. Thanks a lot and hope to hear soon again,