EPLM - Learning Mobility Sandra & Sneza
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[00:00:00] Snezana: But it's actually these moments that also connect the groups and teams. And I think that's something that was always in the core of the non-formal education that you have these dynamics, and then, you know, you understand, you feel yeah. Each other and then you actually pass it on the group. So I think that's also something that we must not forget.

[00:00:19] Ismael: Hello everyone. And welcome to Under 30 a podcast brought to you by the partnership between the European commission and the council of Europe in the field of youth. I'm Ismael Paez Civico and together with Lana Pasic, we'll be hosting this episode. We hope you enjoy.

[00:00:37] Lana: As a part of our podcast series, we are exploring youth learning mobility today with us, we have Sandra and Sneza who are practitioners, facilitators trainers in the, in youth work and youth learning mobility. With the restart of learning mobility activities. We are slowly coming back to in person format.

[00:00:58] Lana: However, over the last two [00:01:00] years, we have explored online blended hybrid and different types of learning mobility. Today, we'll speak about whether this is learning mobility. How does it happen in practice and what are some of the challenges and benefits of different types of learning mobility? But before we go into the content, uh, we discussed a bit, uh, with our guests today, uh, that it is very difficult to label ourselves and put us in the boxes.

[00:01:25] Lana: So I will ask both Sandra and Sneza to briefly introduce themselves and explain how do they identify in the youth work and youth learning mobility area. So Sandra, would you like to start?

[00:01:36] Sandra: Yeah. Thank you, Lana. Um, it is indeed difficult to, uh, Put myself in a box. Um, what I can, what I can share is that I'm educated as a social worker.

[00:01:47] Sandra: Um, so that's my origin. Then in 1999 already, I started my first volunteering in Romania. I'm, uh, I grew up in the, in the Netherlands [00:02:00] and then in 2006, I was supporting a first youth exchange, uh, with a big group of young people from all kind of different countries. And, uh, I decided due to the, due to the, um, the benefit that I saw for young people joining these international mobility to go totally into international non-formal education in 2010.

[00:02:25] Sandra: So since then, I'm I started to work as youth worker, but more grow into trainer coordinating projects, uh, working with young people still as coach. So, yeah, that's, that's a little bit what I'm doing. And the last years I'm mainly involved in, uh, the cities of learning network, uh, that the network and the learning platform from cities of learning.

[00:02:51] Sandra: That's a little bit about me.

[00:02:54] Lana: Thank you, Sandra, and Sneza?

[00:02:58] Snezana: Yeah. Hi, uh, it's [00:03:00] great to be here. I think that needs to be said in a podcast episode. Um, I, anyways, um, I was really thinking, and this is the conversation we had. I work as a trainer facilitator, a person that works with groups that needs to speak in front of the groups.

[00:03:12] Snezana: I find introducing myself incredibly difficult. Uh, but maybe that's a reflection for some other time. So yes, I'm Snezana. That means snow white. I come from Serbia, uh, and I actually always lived in Serbia. So in fact, learning mobility is my way to explore the world. Uh, I never lived longer, uh, anywhere else. And I lived in Serbia also to the tour, through the turbulent nineties.

[00:03:34] Snezana: And in fact it was learning mobility that enabled me to leave and to actually cross the borders and to actually be able to, to explore. So I often say that I'm a product of youth exchanges, which is really was the place where I faced diversity in a way, and learned so much about myself. Other things that need to be said is that my family is also product of learning mobility, but I'll spare you the details.

[00:03:55] Snezana: And also my cats came, uh, from the learning mobility projects. I [00:04:00] met Sandra through learning mobility, uh, as well. And nowadays I, I mostly work as a trainer facilitator. So, uh, consultant, I support, uh, learning mobility projects, and I'm also part of the E P LM. So European platform and learning mobility, where we, uh, take a closer look on quality, uh, in learning mobility.

[00:04:16] Snezana: And this is something that I concerns me, uh, a lot. And one final thing I've been working with blended and then consequently, online learning for some 13 years already. So even before COVID, so I find it also fascinating area to.

[00:04:30] Ismael: Thank you very much both of you for, for those introductions. And I guess now, as we can see, cuz we are here to speak about learning mobility.

[00:04:36] Ismael: So what better to actually start by asking, like how are you living the new restart of learning mobility in general after the coronavirus pandemic? Let's say, because of course it's been, the whole sector has been completely revolutionized. And I guess throughout this whole podcast, we'll be speaking a bit more in detail about how it got changed, how it got revolutionized and how the youth sector.

[00:04:53] Ismael: Adapted in, in general to this new, new type quote unquote of learning mobility. [00:05:00] So Sandra, if you would like to maybe start with that very general question and then we can keep on maybe and give on the word to Sneza.

[00:05:05] Sandra: So, yeah, to be honest, I looked forward. To that a lot during, uh, the pandemic, having a lot of online experiences with young people with colleagues, uh, I was really the last months I, I wanted to even hug my colleagues, uh, through the screen, something like that, really miss.

[00:05:26] Sandra: I started to miss my colleagues, seeing them having, having the, because when you are having a mobility, uh, when you see before a pandemic, you quite often are living a week together. In a, in a, in a group accommodation or in a hotel. And that is what I really started to miss. So I was really looking forward, um, to have that again, meet young people again, although we were really trying to keep this going, this, this learning to get at this meeting.

[00:05:57] Sandra: To get online via [00:06:00] online opportunities. Then when it finally happened, when we had the first mobility, I was a little bit scared because I needed to fly again. I was thinking, how will I, um, how will I feel when I am in the group in a big group, will I manage? Because online learning quite often is shorter than, uh, that we are not totally awake together, but probably a few hours together in a, in an activity.

[00:06:27] Sandra: Online. And yeah, there was also the feeling of what if we get COVID in the group, which was scaring me a little bit, but I, I started again, we had several mobility learning mobility already. Uh, we had several times COVID also in the group. So what I, what I learned again is to be flexible. We needed to be flexible when COVID started.

[00:06:54] Sandra: And now we are learning to be flexible to get back into the restart of learning [00:07:00] mobility. That for me is, is the main part for start to restarting the learning mobility

[00:07:07] Snezana: for now. Yeah, Sandra, I was actually waiting for the plot twist because you set the stage so well, it's like I was missing it so much that I knew that some challenges are coming as well.

[00:07:17] Snezana: And I, I remember looking at this question and I was, I think what, the best thing that I found that, uh, describes my restart is Marvel multiverse. Because I feel that the different worlds are coming together and different universes, which is that there are still many things happening online. There are residential activities that are in full swing.

[00:07:35] Snezana: So it's one after another. Then there are also parts of the hybrid and blended and all of this somehow needs to fit in one day. And I find it super, uh, challenging. Uh, and I go back and I. I wonder shouldn't I just have stayed in my balcony office, do things online when the things were simpler, but no, I mean, I think I'm enjoying it also very much.

[00:07:54] Snezana: I'm at the moment, right? When we are recording this podcast in a beautiful venue in Budapest, uh, with a wonderful [00:08:00] outdoor space, we were joking that youth work is about walking in the forest. We actually have a forest and I think many of these things we simply were not able to. Online. And I mentioned previously that I was actually doing online, uh, learning or facilitating online learning for, for quite some years.

[00:08:15] Snezana: Now there were moments in the, during the COVID where I thought I never want to go back to this ever again. I'm done with online learning and that's it. I don't feel like that anymore. I think I also understand the value. I understand the value of simply being able to craft your space, to organize yourself, to just not be constantly on the move.

[00:08:35] Snezana: But I also enjoy the human interactions a lot. I think there is something about people coming together that is probably the origins of, of learning mobility and why it started in the first place that simply cannot be recreated in any other environment or at least I, so let me do the disclaimer. I haven't found a way to recreate it.

[00:08:52] Snezana: What

[00:08:52] Sandra: I love you hearing Sneza, is that you wanted go back to the easier, the more simple way of [00:09:00] online working. And I remember also how we felt when we needed to start with being online. Exactly.

[00:09:09] Snezana: Yeah, but I also, I mean, at some point, uh, I, I, uh, we, I heard your dog, uh, barking, and I was like, this was actually the moments online that I really loved. I know that there will be a question about the online. And so, but really the moments of getting to know, uh, people's families, uh, dogs, uh, kids, uh, partners, whoever, you know, found their place around.

[00:09:28] Snezana: And this is for example, one element that I still enjoy. Uh, when I see in these meetings that I have in lunch breaks or breakfast or whatever they happen, nowaday.

[00:09:37] Lana: Thank you both. Um, I think we already touched upon, but the differences, uh, between different types of activities and how they happen and what are some of the highlights, uh, of, uh, staying at home and also being in a venue.

[00:09:52] Lana: Uh, but you both talked about kind of doing mobility projects online in a blended format, but [00:10:00] also being in the forest and doing them in person. So it's quite a variety of environments in which learning mobility happens. So what would you say is learning mobility considering this huge diversity of ways of how it can be done?

[00:10:17] Lana: Yeah, I

[00:10:17] Snezana: was. Another thing that I want to say, actually, I told you that I'm in a learning mobility at the moment. It, it is about learning environments. So I will share some reflection later on about that. And it's really nice. I think after COVID to think about this, what really makes a learning mobility?

[00:10:31] Snezana: Is it just a different learning environment? Uh, is there a core that stays the same so that we can define? So for me, when I think what it is, I think it comes very much in visuals. I think the first visual that I would have, if you ask me what it is, is a fireplace, because I find it as really the place where people can come together.

[00:10:48] Snezana: Actually in this, in this ticket on value based learning and mobility projects, if you haven't read it to find it on the partnership website, we have one beautiful illustration that is the fireplace on a planet, [00:11:00] and there are different planets around. And actually the people that are around the fireplace came from different planets.

[00:11:05] Snezana: And this is for me, maybe the perfect representation of learning mobility, because I think it, it means that you can find your spot somewhere, whatever that is, uh, that you can be yourself, that you can kind of. For some young people, it's also the first time to be themselves where they're kind of free from the burdens, maybe of their home environment.

[00:11:23] Snezana: Some, some things that they're weighting them down, maybe that they were told how they should be. So this is really the moment that they start discovering themselves through the eyes of the others, but their own eyes. And to really, because for me, what is the most important, of course there are other aspects that you learn a lot about the culture, where they are, that you learn about the topic there, but also that you learn about your really deep things, like values.

[00:11:43] Snezana: Like attitudes, like behaviors that maybe you haven't had a chance to do before. And I think there is one another, uh, thing that it describes learning environments very well, which is leaving for learning, which is that you somehow need to move that you leave your environment in order to start learning.

[00:11:58] Snezana: So maybe it doesn't actually start at the [00:12:00] fireplace on this planet. Maybe it starts in the whatever transport you take, but somehow that the movement itself puts you in a mindset, uh, that you're kind of learning in a, in another environment. So, this is for me, it's a really special place where somehow the magic of discovering yourself mainly, uh, can happen.

[00:12:19] Sandra: I love how you say Sneza um, the, the, the variety, the wide variety of projects, uh, the formats that are in the activities that learning mobilities have and how to mobilize young people and youth workers and, and staff of organizations, uh, being involved in those, uh, learning mobility. I also have been thinking about learning mobility.

[00:12:41] Sandra: Do you need to travel for that? And yeah, probably you also can, uh, travel in the, in the digital world, in a metaverse um, when we are going towards VR, virtual reality, or, uh, probably then we can travel. I had during the whole, the whole pandemic. It's [00:13:00] one big wish that I have. I really wanted, and I, I didn't succeed, but I will, I didn't succeed yet, but I will, I really would like to work with holograms.

[00:13:10] Sandra: So young people who can travel online, uh, recording yourself and then travel to the living room of somebody else. By being an hologram, so, and sharing an in your information or, or being, having this fireplace together, but then in a different way, uh, but you can see the person in your room, uh, fire your phone or something like that.

[00:13:33] Sandra: That's my big wish I'm not there yet, but, uh, it will be,

[00:13:37] Ismael: I think it's great that both of you already dove into the actual topic of, can you even consider online learning as learning mobility? And it was something I wrote down now what Sneza said, well, the whole point is the travel itself gives you a specific type of education and type of learning.

[00:13:53] Ismael: And I think my question is now because I mean, of course COVID did bring the digital era up to the, the, the, the [00:14:00] front let's say of the conversation and a good thing for that is that people that don't have the resources to travel. So I think the general question is can online learning let's say ever replace really, or is even a bit of hope that actually that can be a better format for people that don't have the access to actually be mobile or move around.

[00:14:18] Ismael: Maybe not the money. Maybe they're in very deep, rural areas. That's very difficult for them to move. Maybe they have jobs, maybe they're disabled, uh, et cetera. So is there even a way to even consider online learning as learning mobility in itself, if they respect certain pillars, uh, of its, of its founding, let's say, or, or what it's there for, or what the goal is, not sure who, who would like to answer this very, a bit complicated question.

[00:14:44] Snezana: Well, actually, I wanted to add something to what Sandra was saying, which I think partly, uh, goes into the question you, uh, asked Ismael and one was, that was the, the holograms that, the idea that I quite like, and then I had a moment of thinking that throughout these two years, let's say, [00:15:00] but also some experiences before and after there were moments where I felt that.

[00:15:04] Snezana: I personally, and then also some people in the group manage to travel mentally into the places of other people as well. Yeah. And this is maybe connected to the Sandra dog that I was mentioning, who I actually know, uh, a little bit through some of the meetings that we had, that depending on the opportunities that you provide in this learning environment, how often people meet, how do you set up this learning environment?

[00:15:25] Snezana: I think not the holograms, uh, and not fully, but mentally. I think, I feel that I have visited some places before and I have met some, uh, people before, like Lana, for example, I met in person what we discovered only a few weeks ago, but I, it was very hard for me to believe that because we built a relationship over two years over different.

[00:15:43] Snezana: So it was not learning mobility. It was mostly meetings and also some workshops as well. But then there is space for that. Yeah. To say that the, the mobility itself doesn't lack. I'm not there yet. I cannot tell you. No, it's, it's a perfect replacement. Yeah, it's equal in that [00:16:00] sense. And, and so on. I, I think we still need to work with this, but let's not forget that two years is not in compared to decades of different mobility experiences or centuries, if you would like maybe it was not called burning mobility back then, but surely people learned by my booming and, and so on.

[00:16:15] Snezana: So I think we need to give ourselves more chance to explore and utilize the possibilities there. And for sure, for some people, it definitely enabled better access, uh, to opportunities. Yeah. You mentioned some, and I think for a variety of reasons, also I have colleagues who have small kids and they cannot travel, but they would still like access to learning opportunities or they would like to facilitate and do their jobs or.

[00:16:39] Snezana: To not move for whatever reason. Yeah. So I think definitely there is a potential there. I think maybe we start by utilizing blended and hybrid formats, uh, because there they give us still a bit, uh, residential maybe to, to utilize. But I, I, somehow now I had, after I had a break and my frustration lower down, I still feel that online has a potential that we need to explore [00:17:00] further.

[00:17:01] Sandra: Yeah, for, for me also, I think it will enrich, uh, I think the, the, the online meetings, the hybrid, the blend that it, it enrich the, the meetings that we have in person also, because people are learning differently or want, or have different interests. And it gives more opportunities to connect with the interest of, of young people, of staff, of youth workers than, um, than being totally in.

[00:17:28] Sandra: For a week, for example, in a youth exchange. And at the same time, I also think that it is important due to the fast, the fast changing technology, uh, that we have nowadays, that we also support people involved in youth work to be more digital in different ways. So I see for myself, a task here to, to, to use, uh, digital tools to use.

[00:17:55] Sandra: Communication tools to support young people, to be ready for their future. [00:18:00] So that is where I see. And don't want to give up totally the, the, the digital experiences

[00:18:07] Snezana: that we have. I'm raising my hand. I know this is, uh, just audio, but I'm also thinking that here, uh, I told you that we are part of, uh, the, the course that exposed, um, the learning environments.

[00:18:19] Snezana: I think learning environments are part of it. It's our context. It's a setup. It's the net that holds us, but it's very much what we do with it. Uh, I think, and how much we invest in it. And I have a feeling that we invested quite a lot in shaping the learning spaces when we meet in person. But then there are also processes.

[00:18:34] Snezana: There are also methods that we use and so on. So of course, if you bring the group of young people online or the adults, if you like, and then use methods that, okay. Ask questions. There are some interactions without actually supporting this. Dismantle or even like imaginary travel and so on, then maybe it stays on some surface, but if there are other approaches that actually push people to go further and to really do something and bring their local community and then [00:19:00] involve with the tasks and so on, I think that there are possibilities there that, uh, That we simply just need to find out.

[00:19:06] Snezana: Yeah. And also get more familiar. I think the main question is also when you ask, are they formats here to stay? You know, so are the youth workers and facilitators of learning, ready to embrace them and develop the, develop the competencies to really use them properly and not just, uh, as a, as something that works in Covid and then the pandemic is over,

[00:19:24] Snezana: and .Then. Uh here we are

[00:19:27] Sandra: yeah. One, one example that I, that I would like to share following youth that, um, in the projects that we are doing right now, the trainings that we give, for example, we have given a leadership training, uh, where not all young people could be part of. And what we tried out there is to, to have a, a hybrid meeting where young people could meet online locally, but also we were searching for ways to, uh, meet online.

[00:19:53] Sandra: So they meet, meet it in person locally, but then online, internationally, and combining these. And that makes [00:20:00] that enrich the, the learning experience. I think it's not, it's, it's not proven by research, but it gives more opportunities to have kind of pre-meetings. Locally, but also internationally. I saw quite often that young people who don't need there to travel yet, having the experiences and meeting online with other young people, getting to know them a little bit better before they start traveling was making the

[00:20:28] Sandra: the, the, the fear for this, shall I go or not go lower? And that made some young people already there to take the step to go on the mobility, even with all the challenges of, of COVID or, or war, uh, situations. So it, it gave them a, a space of, uh, safety. It's one of the big, big efforts that I've seen right now too.

[00:20:52] Sandra: Now, one other thing, one other example that I would like to share is that I, for a while already, I was thinking, um, I love [00:21:00] non-formal learning. I love the experience, but can I en enrich or can I make this experience more sustainable? How can I do that? And using more online tools, I can see that young people are, are quite often.

[00:21:16] Sandra: Using the, for example, when we are using the, the cities of learning platform about in the, this leadership training, I give some information like in a formal training, uh, I give some additional information, knowledge about leadership or a part of leadership. And if young people want, they can see it, it's still voluntarily, but it enriched their learning experience by the knowledge by giving, by deeping their learning experience.

[00:21:46] Sandra: And also what I see is by using, uh, more blended learning and online using online learning in, in, in for example, youth, youth exchanges or youth trainings, is that when you are not [00:22:00] ready yet, for example, to. Recognize your learning in reflection, but giving people an online tool where reflection can happen and they can choose their own timing.

[00:22:12] Sandra: For example, after three months, I will still fill in this online questionnaire or reflection tool. And we are offering as youth workers, still the, the availability, our availability to support with this reflection, then the learning becomes more sustainable. So having this blended forms included in youth work.

[00:22:32] Sandra: It's for me enriching.

[00:22:33] Ismael: Yes. I can't stop wondering whether the, the digitalization let's say of learning mobility poses, a threat or a risk to actual learning mobility for what we're thinking about. Cause maybe some people are gonna become too complacent and they're going to say, oh, well, if we're gonna do it online and there's no point over seeing each other in person.

[00:22:49] Ismael: And uh, I mean, we have realized that a lot of in person meetings could have been settled with two emails. I mean, of course there's some pros and cons, but don't you think there's maybe. A threat really for maybe [00:23:00] less funding going into actual learning mobility to give the resources for people to travel and see each other in person saying, oh no, well, you can do a three day workshop online on zoom.

[00:23:08] Ismael: It'll be a lot cheaper. It'll be a lot more accessible and you can do all your other things. Uh, does that even, maybe cross your mind that it potentially be a threat for the future of learning mobility.

[00:23:18] Snezana: So far, it doesn't seem so at least judging by the number of, uh, of, uh, in person reside, uh, in person, residential activities happening at the moment.

[00:23:26] Snezana: Also, when you speak about funding, I have to say it doesn't look like there is a risk that more funding would go into online blended and hybrid the residential, because that's actually what we were trying to fight for to actually explain that that online is not necessarily cheaper. Yes, you don't have traveling, but there are so many other things that you need to set up.

[00:23:41] Snezana: So I think when it comes to cost, if we look at the real cost. I think that the online will not, I think be necessarily much cheaper. I hope that we will go, but it also depends a lot of, of different stakeholders working together. I think we should go. We, and we will hopefully go in the direction of understanding how these [00:24:00] different formats can compliment each other.

[00:24:02] Snezana: Because I think there is experience there that chose that. Yeah. I mean, we mainly spoke about online and, and in person, and Sandra mentioned some experiences of hybrid and blended, but it's actually, for me, the main question is how are the hybrid and blended going to compliment the in person mobility when it comes to meetings?

[00:24:18] Snezana: Indeed. Uh, hopefully some meetings will become emails, uh, and not just in person also, hopefully some zoom meetings will become emails or SMSs if possible, but I would, I choose to believe, uh, and maybe that's too hopeful that we would reflect and really start to understand, okay, what can be online? And it's the most efficient online?

[00:24:37] Snezana: What is actually, uh, what can be in person, uh, where do we have the resources to invest in blended? Because it's blended actually that takes, I would say the most resources because you really have. If Done properly, a long term process that enables people to what Sandra was saying, learning their own time in their own pace, and then also come together and do it together and benefit from an international community.

[00:24:58] Snezana: And when can we do it [00:25:00] hybrid, which means that we can bring in people who simply cannot be with us, but still enable for people to meet together. Yeah. So, and finally, I wanted to say that I think it's also, I felt a bit early, uh, to answer these questions. I think we also rushed to say, aha COVID is somehow over.

[00:25:16] Snezana: Although I don't think it is. And let's now decide whether we do residential do online and so on, but there is. So much learning that we need to, process, so much things that happened that we still didn't have time to think about. We started rushing doing our, you know, catching our planes and rushing off to the in person activities.

[00:25:33] Snezana: So I think to really fully answer your questions, I think we would need to recommend to record another podcast in a year or so when hopefully we will have a time to, to debrief and, and digest.

[00:25:43] Sandra: I totally endorse you. Snezana I also, I'm glad. Yeah. I also think, um, uh, in person meetings are incredibly important, uh, because you, you can, you see a lot more non-verbal communication.

[00:25:58] Sandra: You can feel each other. You can, [00:26:00] there's much more communication and. If you look at the, the, the aims of, um, uh, and the, the aims of, of mobility, of learning mobility, that's also what we need to, we need to connect, to keep connected, to, to being connected with each other and, uh, to fully understand each other.

[00:26:18] Sandra: Sometimes you also need to get to know each other better. Yes. That is also by being on zoom and seeing each other's animals or kids or living rooms. But it is also to together to have that reflection moments after a training that you deliver with each other, or the chat that you have at the dinner table, when you are doing a youth exchange, those are very important moments

[00:26:43] Snezana: to connect

[00:26:44] Snezana: And I was just thinking that recently I had a couple of these moments where as a team, you would arrive earlier to an activity. Yeah. Uh, and I found, and I know that we also say no, the preparation should then be moved online, but it's actually these moments that also connect the groups and teams. And I think that's [00:27:00] something that was always in that.

[00:27:01] Snezana: Core of the non-formal education that you have, these dynamics that then, you know, you understand you feel yeah. Each other and then you actually pass it onto the group. So I think that's also something that we must not forget. And I have a feeling that if we can influence anything as practitioners or, uh, the youth partnership as well.

[00:27:17] Snezana: And so on, it's maybe to also stop ourselves perpetuating. If that's the word, black and white questions. Should this exist or not exist. Yeah. Or should we do more of this or that, but more thinking of, okay, now we actually, we have a gift of at least four different learning environments in terms of, uh, presence digitally on in person.

[00:27:36] Snezana: How do we use them and for what? And I think that's something that we need to start asking. We might still be asked from the, and I will not name names, but from the higher instances to justify or to ask these kind of questions, but at least we ourselves. Let's have different kind of conversation of this.

[00:27:51] Snezana: Okay. How do we make this happen with the best resources that are the most, uh, efficiently and to the best quality possible? [00:28:00] Yeah.

[00:28:00] Sandra: Yes, indeed. Indeed. And then also I want to add to this part, um, including also the, the mental health of the people who are working in the, in the youth field, because there's a lot of pressure of doing everything and all, uh, at the same time.

[00:28:15] Sandra: So that is, uh, so mental health can absolutely included.

[00:28:19] Snezana: Yes.

[00:28:20] Lana: Thank you both. It has been really enriching. And I think one of the things, uh, one of the things that came out through this podcast is also your absolute passion for learning mobility and, uh, commitment to commitment to it. Um, I think we covered the types of learning environments, uh, not only blended online hybrid, but we also.

[00:28:41] Lana: On the travel planet, UFOs, fireplaces, uh, holograms, and all the different ways through which we can learn travel, uh, connect, uh, with each other. I would just like to ask if you would, uh, want to add anything else, any closing words, uh, any words of [00:29:00] inspiration and motivation, uh, for those that are practicing learning mobility in different environments?

[00:29:07] Sandra: Yeah, for me, for me, what I would really. Look forward is that people keep embracing the opportunities that there are ahead. Uh, I would really like to keep the corporation and the support that we give each other, uh, while being in this unknown world of starting again, eh, the first the pandemic, but now restarting, uh, again, and, and embrace also the skills that we are learning.

[00:29:33] Sandra: So, and sharing with each other. That's what I would. Wish for all of us.

[00:29:38] Snezana: Thank you, Sandra. I feel the wish. And I, I take it for me. The first thing that came into my mind that, uh, this week, we also, when, when thinking about coming environments had architects with us who, uh, who came as visiting experts, who talked a lot about the form and function and which one follows, which, and I wish to all of us to somehow stop focusing so much on the form.[00:30:00]

[00:30:00] Snezana: Uh, but think about what do we use it for and what is the essence there? And is it the connection? Is it that we need to kind of provide access? Is it that we need to, and we want to have an, to extend the learning process is it that we want to involve the people who cannot travel with us. And then when we know what are our needs.

[00:30:17] Snezana: And why are we doing this? I think the form comes, uh, and we just need to learn how to, to use it.

[00:30:24] Ismael: And with those ending notes, we have reached an end to our episode. Thank you very much Sneza and Sandra participating in this podcast and Lana for cohosting this episode with me and all the listeners. Remember to follow us on Instagram @eucoeyouth.

[00:30:37] Ismael: To stay up to date with our future content. Thank you very much and see you next time.