Advocacy for youth work in Eastern and South-East Europe
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Darek: [00:00:00] Hi, hello, welcome to the next episode of our UNDER 30 podcast of the youth partnership. Today we will be talking about advocating for youth work in Eastern and Southeast Europe, which was a topic, but also a seminar, a seminar that, happened in the end of October in Skopje in North Macedonia.

Darek: And I have three people here today. I'd like you to introduce yourself. Maybe Ana, we start with you.

Ana: Hello. Hello. I am Ana, Ana Yagoyan from Armenia based in Gyumri. I am a youth work educator. So working primarily, well, nationally and internationally, likewise, I also do consultancy and mentoring for youth initiatives, young youth workers, and occasionally also research, although I refrain from calling myself a researcher.

Darek: Thank you, Ana. Dragan. [00:01:00]

Dragan: My name is Dragan. I am based in Skopje, North Macedonia, and, I am a consultant. in the field of youth and youth work. So I take multiple roles, as, as an educator, trainer, sometimes researcher as well, sometimes an author of different resources and sometimes also involved in policymaking.

Darek: Thank you, Dragan. and Laszlo. Laszlo, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Laszlo: Good morning. My name is Laszlo Milutinovic and I'm also an expert in education and trainer myself, but otherwise I'm currently, working for the youth partnership.I'm based in Strasbourg. Otherwise I come from Hungary and, yeah, I was responsible for organizing the seminar that you, you mentioned in your introduction.

Darek: That's very good that you were the responsible because you're the right person to ask the first question. Actually, let's start a little bit from the context of the seminar. It's not the first seminar that's dealing with the topic of youth work in Southeast and Eastern Europe. If you can tell us a little bit, Laszlo, why this seminar, [00:02:00] why it's important, it's not the first seminar, as we mentioned already.

Darek: So what's the place of this seminar in the partnership program?

Laszlo: So basically the partnership, always has a two year work plans and, it's an expectation of the two partner institutions. I mean, the European Commission and of the Council of Europe that we pay special attention to involving, the members of the community of practice and the community of practitioners in youth work, from the two regions in our activities and, one of the, uh, force that we regularly make, and it's included in our work plan that we organize, yearly youth work related seminars involving participants from Eastern Europe and from Southeast Europe as well.

Laszlo: Usually we try to bring together not only youth work practitioners, but also researchers, other experts, educators. So like a wider, the wider committee of practice and also decision makers to discuss current priorities and developments in user work in the [00:03:00] regions. And I mean, of course, the overall aim is to, to somehow, keep those countries connected to European processes that otherwise, are not members of the European Union.

Laszlo: For example, they don't have maybe national agencies that can support them more, on the national level or involving them in international activities. So it's just really a special effort on behalf of the partnership and the two institutions to, to keep this, these countries and the community of practice in these two countries up to date about developments.

Darek: Okay, that's a little bit of institutional context, but Ana and Dragan, you were taking part actively in this, in this seminar in Skopje, I would like to ask you about your impressions about why it's important in your opinion, and, also what kind of progress do you observe and in those two regions when it comes to the situation of youth workers and also youth work, the context of youth work.

Ana: Well, I could go on first. well, with Dragan, we [00:04:00] facilitated the seminar this year, and I think it was quite unique because we come from these two regions. And, I think we also have some individual professional link to the development of the youth work in these two regions. I think the value of the seminar is not only that this brings together the youth work practitioners and stakeholders from the two regions, but also that it connects the two regions with each other.

Ana: There is not so many cooperation opportunities among the regions. Usually this cooperation opportunities are between the member states. and one of the regions. So I think this is bringing an added value and understanding of what is happening in some other part of Europe that is closer than we think. I think context wide, this is a much more, closer, context than even those of the member states.

Ana: And, I think it also was very well, displayed during this year's seminar. We had very good [00:05:00] practices from both regions. We had very strong participants that brought a lot of knowledge and expertise. I think overall we achieved this aim of peer to peer learning and exchange and also somehow bringing a European added value to that.

Ana: Dragan, maybe if you want to continue.

Dragan: Yeah, I agree that it's an important event that is happening, until now, at least it's been happening every year in different country organized by the partnership in the field of youth. And I think it's important for the reasons that actually Laszlo mentioned in many of these countries, there is really, no stakeholder that would push more for this, this topics to be discussed and for for youth work to be developed.

Dragan: And there is a bit of a gap when it comes to, for example, the implementation of the European Youth Work Agenda, and there is a gap when it comes to inter regional, but then also cross regional collaboration. Also, as Ana was saying, so the regions are [00:06:00] very distant. There are no many opportunities for practitioners and also policy makers from the countries in the region to, talk to each other, to exchange a bit about the realities, to share good practices, also to, to think and to discuss how they connect together. So I think that that kind of platform is, often missing, and, this regional seminar has been a unique opportunity for those from different sectors from different fields from this all these countries to get together and spend a few days just mapping a bit the reality, but then also planning ahead.

Dragan: And I think if you look back, I've been part of the last few regional seminars. I think one thing that I noticed is that the group of people that are involved is growing, is increasing, and I think that's important because more new people from different organizations, from different institutions are getting involved in the topic and they're learning of the progress in the [00:07:00] regions, and then they're also becoming a bit of advocates for youth work.

Dragan: And also, I think that you can see how the topics are spreading. So, for example, if some years ago, the topic of let's say, vocational training for youth workers or, competence frameworks for youth workers were present only in some countries. Now you see how, how they're also becoming, important in, in other countries as well.

Dragan: And then here I see the influence that the regional seminar has in transferring ideas and practices and developments from one region to the other, or from one country to the other.

Darek: Thank you for sharing those impressions. The seminars are always a place where people meet, they can learn from each other, they maybe understand more the context and the reality of other countries as well when it comes to youth work, You said that one of the things that you managed to do was mapping the reality.

Darek: So my next question is about what is this reality? When it comes to youth work, youth [00:08:00] workers in Eastern and Southeast Europe? What are the challenges and also what are the achievements as well that that you can highlight here, that also maybe were shared during the seminar. I hope they were.

Ana: I think talking about realities, the realities in the two regions are quite different, affected by different factors. I could speak about Eastern Europe, the uncertainty, the security uncertainty, political uncertainty, in the region and in between the countries, within the countries, is affecting tremendously youth work as well, as well as all other domains of public policy. But youth work traditionally is in a very vulnerable spot. And when governments need to transition and when situations within the countries are a crisis situations, first things that are overlooked or taken advantage of is youth work, or one of the first things.

Ana: So I would say that one of [00:09:00] maybe biggest achievements is that there is still youth work in the region under the circumstances that youth work is happening. For example, in Ukraine, in the time of war, youth work is happening in this very turbulent political times in some other of the Eastern countries. And, I think this is very much because of the resilience of the community of practice and not so much because of the strengths of the policies that exist.

Ana: So I think our biggest challenge in the region is institutionalizing the achievement and the expertise that we already have, because it is very big. It's very tangible. And in terms of practice, there is so much to showcase. But when it comes to policy, institutionalization, when it comes to creating a sustainable and systemic progress, this is where we are lagging behind.

Ana: And from one day to another, a system that actually worked very well because of some political [00:10:00] ambition or security situation might completely collapse and you are somehow in this place to build things ground up. So I think in the region of Eastern Europe, we are, still continuing to do youth work.

Ana: It is happening in very many interesting forms. A lot of center based youth work is happening, a lot of outreach youth work is happening, different interesting creative programs and projects are being implemented. Many initiatives with young people's active participation, and I think a little bit better developed than before.

Ana: Um, self management structured or co management structures are there. But still, I think what is biggest challenge is the recognition, the institutionalization, and a policy strength that I think is still a work in progress. And to this end, I think the seminar was very important because we are not talking about the existence of youth work.

Ana: We are talking [00:11:00] about advocating for youth work, that it is politically accepted, that this part of public policy and you don't have to justify its existence with every new politician that is coming into the arena.

Dragan: Think the region of Southeast Europe is a bit privileged in this way that it's a bit further away from theissues that Ana was talking about that are affecting youth work, practitioners in Eastern Europe and Caucasus, even though there are also turbulences in, in the Southeast Europe as well.

Dragan: Another factor I think that is unique is that the countries in Southeast Europe are quite close to each other. So, and there is a lot of communication and interaction between civil society organizations in different countries. So it's easier for ideas, practices, to, to go from one place to another and to be transferred.

Dragan: Also, historically, I think in [00:12:00] this part of the world, civil society and youth work have been quite effective at addressing also political turbulences and challenges in society. So starting from the wars in ex Yugoslavia and all the efforts for reconciliation and peace building and then intercultural learning afterwards, as a result of all the international programs and all the schools of youth work, if I can say so, I think youth work has developed very much in all of these countries, even without being called youth work.

Dragan: And even though it has developed in different, in different directions, depending on who was implementing, who was offering youth work, activities and who was behind the, the programs that were being funded. I think in the, in the last few years, we are moving more towards, similarly to what Ana was talking about, more towards standardization and recognition of youth work as a profession, as a service that should be provided to young people.[00:13:00]

Dragan: Also quality development, the quality insurance for youth work and more training and education for youth workers and other youth work practitioners. And also, even more recently, measuring impact and the, the effect off youth work on the young people in a wider society. There are few initiatives around that in our countries, and I see a lot of positive developments in this direction, is far from from perfect.

Dragan: Some countries are a bit ahead in some areas. Some are ahead in other areas. But I think what I can say that I've noticed this time, but also previously is that there is increased awareness about the need for quality provision of quality youth work and then all the other questions I think are related to this one. So if you want to provide quality youth work services, then you need youth workers that are properly trained and educated and then you need to have certain minimum quality standards for youth clubs youth [00:14:00] centers and also competence frameworks for youth workers and then, this is also linked to proper funding for youth work, and sustainable models of, of, youth services, et cetera.

Dragan: So I think the conversation is there and the authorities are, I think, more open to, to listen to it and to respond. And there are also more examples of cross sectorial collaboration, which has shown to give concrete results in at least some of the countries in the, in the region.

Darek: Thank you. It's very interesting that both of you very much focused on the achievements, which I'm very happy about as well, that you see that there is a progress and that there are achievements. Of course, you mentioned certain challenges. Some of them are probably a little bit easier to address.

Darek: Some of them are more complicated, more difficult. And thank you, Ana, for mentioning that again, that this seminar was about advocating for youth work in both regions. And sometimes I think in the youth sector, we are repeating it all the time that we are very good in youth work, but we are quite bad and [00:15:00] advocating for youth work. And, this is what I hear quite often as well due to different factors probably.

Darek: I would like to ask you this. You said that you listen to a lot of good practices and so on. What are the ways of to advocate if you, I'm not asking you for advice, but more maybe to share what you did or what was mentioned in the seminar, what is the way to advocate? If you can give some tips to youth organizations, youth NGOs, even an unorganized groups of young people, What they can do to advocate?

Dragan: So, yeah, there is no recipe, and I think that's it. like you also mentioned is there is no one right way to advocate for youth work.

Dragan: And with this seminar, we actually provided the opportunity for more practitioners and more advocates for youth work from both regions to talk about their own stories and their own examples that worked. And one particularly strong component that we have seen in the region and in other European [00:16:00] countries as well is when youth workers get together in professional associations of youth workers, whether it's networks of individuals, or networks of,of organizations that provide youth work or networks of youth centers or youth clubs.

Dragan: Because for the simple reason that, when it's more, people from the field united, then their voice is stronger and their message has more weight. And we've seen that in a few of the countries in the region, there are active youth workers' associations. And in those countries, there are more developments, in the field of youth work.

Dragan: And because these, these actors can really commit to, lobbying for, for youth work and connecting all the different stakeholders so they can, they can devote their time and energy on really the, the advocacy efforts, which, take take quite a lot of time sometimes to meet all the stakeholders to to organize consultancy meetings and open discussions and to do [00:17:00] surveys and to meet policymakers and then to develop policy and then policy won't be approved, but then you have to do it all over again.

Dragan: So these are longer processes and, chances are, if you are an individual or single enthusiastic youth worker to make a change or even an organization, chances are you will lose motivation or you ran out of resources or time to do it. But then if it's a professional association, or a network of organizations, they have more resources and more, more time and they can, they can put more efforts into, into process because change such as the one that is required for youth work development in line with the European Youth Work and also,if you think, you know, for example, establishing training programs, educational programs, or creating sustainable youth work models, this takes time, sometimes years for, for lasting change to, to happen.

Dragan: So you need somebody that is committed to it and somebody that has the resources to do it. So, so that's, I think,one good example. Another good example is when, stakeholders from different fields, [00:18:00] especially from civil society and policymaking work together. And we've seen that in a few of the countries where there is somebody in the governmental institutions that understands, what the cause is and, the importance of youth work development. And when they work together with the civil society youth work practitioners, they're much more, developments. And, and then this also requires on the side of the youth work community of practice to work, to be proactive with the governmental. authorities and with public institutions and also with academia and with research with others to, so to bring everyone on the same page.

Dragan: And to do that, you also need to be able to translate the message to explain why, for example, training for youth work is important or why you'd send this work. And that's why I think, investing into showing, demonstrating impact of youth work is also very important because, very often, if we are just talking about In our cocoon in the in the youth work world and you stay in your youth club and you know things work and you see impact and you see how [00:19:00] young people change and develop but we take it for granted that the others are also able to see even even if they are not part of the sector and that that's not to be taken for granted.

Darek: Thank you. Yeah, I mean all of the things are very big sometimes can be very scary for people who work in the very small NGOs but thank you for saying that. Yeah, everything may start with a very simple step or very small step as well, like showing what you do or sharing your practices that you do with young people and so on, this can be a start and also finding maybe your place within the, let's say, networks not everybody has to be super active and not everybody has to talk to politicians, but finding your place also, it's, it's also very important.

Darek: You say, yeah, the power is in numbers. The more people, the better sometimes. Not always, but in this case, sometimes it works. Ana, anything else to add to this?

Ana: I couldn't agree more. I think uniting in different forms is very important. And unfortunately, in our region, we are not very lucky with very many [00:20:00] successful cases of youth worker unions.

Ana: But I think there are other ways how you can unite and bring together people, organize big events, where you can also be allies with the politicians and, I know the context is highly political and we tend to protect our field and don't want to engage or be affiliated or associated with politics.

Ana: But. that is where the power is. And, you have to find the middle ground where you can actually bring together these different people from seemingly different sides of the barricades and understand that we are actually in the end all working for young people. And this is, our differences aside, this should be our common goal.

Ana: I think the other thing that slightly already was mentioned by Dragan is evidence. We are very good at work that we do not very good at producing evidence and then even worse at showcasing this evidence that we have produced. So I [00:21:00] think this is also important that, the countries and, and also organizations invest a bit in analyzing and in researching and in collecting data.

Ana: This is something that we are lagging behind because, doesn't mean that it has to be elaborate research. It can also be testimonials and success stories. It can be stories of one single person's life that can be touching the hearts of decision makers. And in this way, also supporting the lobbying process.

Ana: But we do work. And we do achieve results and we make a difference and we know about it. We don't have to shy away from bringing this together, putting this in structural way, maybe making a little bit more professional how we talk about work and also treating our work seriously ourselves, because we cannot expect a serious attitude towards the youth field if we don't consider what we do life [00:22:00] changing and different. This is not a bragging. This is a fact. This is actually a reality for many young people that don't even have access to formal education, don't have access to labor market. And then the only thing they get access to is non formal education through quality youth work and this is where they flourish and this is where they change.

Ana: We need to be able to bring these stories into the spotlight and highlight our achievements and be able tohow do you say it, constructively also bring this to the table of different kinds of negotiations. I think it is very important, especially for our regions, because very often we also depend on funding that is very fragile.

Ana: So it's either coming from institutions that are far, far away, like European Union, or, the ones that are coming from private funding. So very often we don't depend [00:23:00] on this kind of structural, nice day to day funding. So we have to not only lobby because this is good for the future, but it's also good for today.

Ana: Your work might depend on decision makers, understanding what you do, valuing what you do and supporting, supporting it also financially.

Darek: Thank you. One of the objectives of the seminar was also somehow contribute to the upcoming European Youth Work Convention that's going to happen in May, 2025 in Malta.I would like to ask all of you actually, maybe Laszlo more from the institutional perspective, but Ana and the Dragan how do you feel about this contribution of the seminar to the European Youth Work Convention and what are your expectations from the convention, both personally and also when it comes to the youth work development in the region? If you have any, I hope you do.

Ana: I think, well, historically, I think European Youth Work Conventions are these [00:24:00] moments in time where you reconsider what you have been doing so far as, as a delegation from a country, let's say, and what is your ambition for the future.

Ana: And for Armenia, for example, where I come from, it has been historically quite important. For example, our system of youth worker training was developed after being inspired two conventions ago in 2015 in Brussels from all the developments that are happening. I think 2020 was a very different convention.

Ana: We did it in the time of pandemic and this sharing and personal touch was maybe not as present as it is. So my expectation from this convention is that it is bringing the community of practice and different stakeholders together again, and, joining together and seeing how big this community is and how much potential in it is I think that we can also set during the convention some very ambitious, future plans.[00:25:00] I also feel like, for the going forward, the convention will have the meaning of actually keeping youth work as a sector more on the radar and pinpointing what already has been done within this last five years with the European Youth Work Agenda.

Ana: And I am really looking forward to it because I think this is also a milestone that has somehow Become a tradition that it is the counting moment between that we somehow, assess the results and try to put some kind of goals for the future.

Dragan: Just very briefly. I agree. It's very strategic and important event. However, how much it is used on the national level and how much benefit there is from it depends on how the delegations are formed and how they are prepared to participate and then to utilize the event and as this is in any [00:26:00] case on in the hands of the national authorities and some in some cases it works better, for the youth work community of practice in some not so well, we focused on preparing the whole, basically community of practice on how they can use the event to advocate regardless of who is there next year in Malta because this is essentially most important is how you strategically use the event before as also Ana was talking before the actual convention happens and afterwards to lobby for positive change in the field of youth work in the country.

Darek: Thank you. Laszlo, what do you think the contribution of the seminar is? And yeah, maybe what are the next steps?

Laszlo: I think, we collected quite a number of thoughts from the participants from the two regions and, both the report and the graphic recording results will feed in somehow into the preparations of the convention, and I think we will make sure that, as the partnership is working very closely together with the hosts of the, the Maltese hosts of the [00:27:00] convention, and we will also have a seminar, a preparatory seminar in January that all this will be brought there, presented, and we will see how we can make sure that the needs and challenges of the two regions are somehow taken into consideration when planning the program. Otherwise, what is also maybe important to point out that it was not at all accidental that we chose, advocacy as a topic for this seminar because, it was an important learning for the partnership from the previous two year work plan that, that we have to invest more into supporting advocacy efforts, especially on national level.

Laszlo: So, that's why currently we are working on the compilation of an advocacy toolkit. It's a new project of the partnership, and we hope that this will be prepared and ready to be published and shared with the participants of the convention in May. So this is one of my very important expectations that we will have this toolkit ready by then.

Laszlo: Otherwise, maybe when it also comes to [00:28:00] expectations, I would also emphasize that the idea of the convention is that based on all the experience that is accumulated now, coming from regional seminars, coming from the convention discussions, we would like to develop a new road map for further implementation of the European Youth Work Agenda and, this will define a lot, not only the work of the partnership, but I think all efforts on the European level when it comes to use for development in the upcoming years.

Laszlo: So I hope that the convention itself, also maybe with some input from the regional seminar be a good basis for building these further, plans.

Darek: Thank you all for sharing your thoughts, not only on the challenges related to youth work in both regions, but also the achievements, and the contribution of the seminar to the European Youth Work Convention. You will find the links to the materials from the seminar and in notes of this episode. Thanks again, and see you [00:29:00] soon.